DUST Search - Hey CCP, you want all of these threads to stop, right?

Jotun Hiem wrote:

The problem with that part of your post where you describe the Heavy's strength...

The Heavy and the Heavy Machine Gun fail at all of those things.

Two guys will kill a Heavy just as dead as if he were a Scout. Logi or no Logi. One with cover that doesn't run out in front of the Heavy like an idiot will do the same thing.

Heavies have no mobility. They take the long way everywhere, they can't just dart into cover like literally everyone else can, and they can't avoid a grenade that has been cooked.

The Heavy machine Gun already has the third lowest range in the game, exceeding only SMGs and Shotguns, but the prime strength of both of those weapons is that they kill extremely quickly within their optimum ranges. A shotgun is just silly at close range (as it should be), and the SMG will tear through any suit if you're able to get a solid stream of ADS bullets onto your target (easily doable in almost every suit, sept the heavy because their turning in ADS is abysmal). The HMG won't kill much faster than the Assault Rifle, and even then you have to be in optimum range or else almost half of your bullets will straight up miss the target because the game says so.

I get to be the line? Hooray! I get to stand in front of the objectives! Almost all of which are open to some form of flanking or long range harassment, which is my exact weakness... yay.

Oh! But if I crouch and expend a quarter of my ammunition, I can actually hit things! Too bad that leaves my cranium out the open for almost everyone else to shoot at, especially since nearly all the light weapons have a longer effective range than the HMG does. It also forces me to be a stationary target.


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Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 197	Posted - 2013.05.04 04:29:00 - [1] - Quote Scramble Scrub wrote: Then maybe you should do something. Maybe you should step out of IRC, and get into some threads and communicate with your community. Maybe you should actually read the threads in the feedback forum. Maybe Foxfour should be a little more serious with his posts DO SOMETHING. You'll lock this thread. But the message will still get out there. Your community wants you to take action, so take it. HTFU
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 198	Posted - 2013.05.04 05:47:00 - [2] - Quote Cosgar wrote: First and foremost I want to know: Who is Dust 514 going to appeal to in the future? Everyone is throwing around AR 514 as the new title, and they're right. Just about everything in the game that isn't an Assault with an AR is getting nerfed. You can argue ARs are losing sharpshooter range, but everybody is. On top of that, they're getting a second skill to enhance their already OP damage: reduced recoil. That doesn't sound like a nerf, it's a ninja buff to appeal to the lowest common denominator that play this game to get cheap kills and teabag people until the next big FPS or CoD title comes out. After they leave, what about your dedicated fanbase? Will Dust 514 be in a condition that we're going to want to play it? HTFU.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 198	Posted - 2013.05.04 06:20:00 - [3] - Quote Jotun Hiem wrote: CCP took one of the most finicky weapons in the game and said "we're lowering its stats." That's a good way to ** a bunch of people off, especially when the weapon is considered lackluster by the majority of the player community to begin with. It doesn't help that even reducing the HMG's damage by as little as two points would cost the weapon over 10% of its base damage. It's a sticky situation and CCP does not have a great track record when it comes to bringing weapons into line. HTFU one of the cornerstones of the heavies are UP arguments was in relation to their SP and ISK cost. The fact the HMGs and Heavy suits had a far larger SP commitment additional proto versions of the weapons and suits were extemely out of proportion compared to other classes in the same tier. Amarr Sentinel** * Sentinel Suit Bonus: 5% reduction to weapon feedback damage per level Weapon tiers streamlined so that more side grades are unlocked in the advanced tier and more exotic variants in the prototype tier Lowered prices on standard and advanced items in all categories while keeping the price level of prototype items mostly intact * Simplified the pricing on dropsuits GÇô thereGÇÖs now just one price category (i.e. heavy dropsuits now cost the same as assault dropsuits of the same meta level) * Simplified the pricing of weapons GÇô they now have two price categories, primary weapons and sidearms (i.e. heavy machine guns will now cost the same as assault rifles, and nova knives the same as scrambler pistols of the same meta level) Moreover EHP is greater when built up, Armor tanking is viable due to plate variants that dont effect movement speed. (they can also tweak those base stats on the suit if need be as well as the HMG) So not only are the weapons cheaper but the SP sink is diminished for equivalent levels of the same suits. Additionally with less prerequisites than needed now to get equivalent levels of assualt and other suits means less SP commitment to the creation of the build. Yet the myopic, too long dont read summarize everything in 140 character chunks approach to viewing the picture, rather than learning to step back and see the whole "board" is the reason for the outrage. Many of the major arguments that were used to prop up the heavies suck, ccp ruined heavies, heavies are UP threads over the last few months are gone. Less SP to get into the weapons and suits by virtue of the changes in the skill progression system Normalized and fixed cost for the suits and weapons so they are no longer disproportionate to the other suits The global reduction cost of EVERYTHING in terms of ISK(look at cazedrons and novas vid and actually look at those prices(yet our payouts are remaining at current levels, which means far easier to maintain profitability in "inferior" class. You can get more effective tank because of changes to how armor functions But this is most important. People forgot that when you create a character what are the classes they are Artificer, Arbitrer, Enforcer, Sentinel Enforcer: The ultimate frontline soldiers, Enforcers specialize in direct assault and close-quarters combat. Sentinel: Sentinels are trained and equipped to neutralize vehicular threats on the battlefield. Often the last line of defense, they never flinch and never retreat. Nowhere does the role suggest you are mobile tank if anything you are the line. You are meant to hold the fort and not sway from it. Fact is people chose the heavy class because they thought of it as a DMG dealer. It is a Tank(it absorbs dmg and distract the dmg dealing slayers, while the (healers, logis) kept them afloat(if you ever had a fractal on your back or sat atop a tight defensive killbox with the (eye of sauron: a bunch of lvl 4-5 triage only hives and ammo hives) you'd know thats how to play a sentinel class. The problem isn't AR 514 its everyone tries to play the other roles like they are the AR slayer role. CCP spoiled you by actually letting you get away with it for a while but in truth your job is by nature bullet sponge and suppression(thats what HMG's are for) Oh before i forget anyone in a competitve match know how ruthless a officer HMG with Dmg mods can be(now with armor tank being viable its even more so) ask Hellstorm's that played PFB for 200M ISK what they can be like. So to quote some common phrases, HTFU and more importantly Adapt or die. This is a squad based tactical shooter which is very much how a raiding party in MMO functions as a unit not a collection of individual pieces. Perhaps it time this base learned to play their roles and if they cant or dont like it pick one that they can play. The HEAVY SENTINEL is a SSR(situational support role), quit the QQ and learn to play it.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 203	Posted - 2013.05.04 07:08:00 - [4] - Quote Jotun Hiem wrote: The problem with that part of your post where you describe the Heavy's strength... The Heavy and the Heavy Machine Gun fail at all of those things. Two guys will kill a Heavy just as dead as if he were a Scout. Logi or no Logi. One with cover that doesn't run out in front of the Heavy like an idiot will do the same thing. Heavies have no mobility. They take the long way everywhere, they can't just dart into cover like literally everyone else can, and they can't avoid a grenade that has been cooked. The Heavy machine Gun already has the third lowest range in the game, exceeding only SMGs and Shotguns, but the prime strength of both of those weapons is that they kill extremely quickly within their optimum ranges. A shotgun is just silly at close range (as it should be), and the SMG will tear through any suit if you're able to get a solid stream of ADS bullets onto your target (easily doable in almost every suit, sept the heavy because their turning in ADS is abysmal). The HMG won't kill much faster than the Assault Rifle, and even then you have to be in optimum range or else almost half of your bullets will straight up miss the target because the game says so. I get to be the line? Hooray! I get to stand in front of the objectives! Almost all of which are open to some form of flanking or long range harassment, which is my exact weakness... yay. Oh! But if I crouch and expend a quarter of my ammunition, I can actually hit things! Too bad that leaves my cranium out the open for almost everyone else to shoot at, especially since nearly all the light weapons have a longer effective range than the HMG does. It also forces me to be a stationary target. Then play a different role because your job is to stay stationary, or you know use LAVs to overcome the mobility(perhaps G-slick needs to make a comeback and teach you all the art of murder taxi) (Hell dropships dropping heavies are even better) Your job isnt to move from objective to objective (thats pub play noob stuff) In real competition you protect the objectives and guard the flanks. If you guys actaully played more organized matches against teams that do these things you'd learn but instead you duck them. Its okay blame the IMPS, i guess in our hiatus people had noone to challenge you all, forcing you to adapt or die. Not to worry though we will be schooling the community soon enough in FW and PC when you see what a well oiled machine of 16 functioning as 1 looks like.